glokic K: yo sean.. hoskin here
NewGuySean: hey bro
glokic K: what's going on?
NewGuySean: nuthin... sitting in class
NewGuySean: you?
glokic K: haha
glokic K: just writing my business law paper rough draft
NewGuySean: fun!
NewGuySean: what's it about?
glokic K: umm
glokic K: use of reaosnable force
glokic K: A tenant rightfully in possession has right to use reasonable force to prevent forcible and unlawful entry of another. Lorenz v Hunt (1928) 89 CA 6, 264 P 336.
Instructions that one cannot use quarrel as excuse for assaulting another and then plead self defense, and that if party unlawfully attacked uses more force than necessary to protect himself he in turn commits battery upon his assailant for which he is liable, substantially state the law and are not ground for reversal. Dutro v Castoro (1936) 16 CA2d 116, 60 P2d 182.
Amount of force exerted, means or instrument by which it is applied, manner or method of applying it, and circumstances under which it is applied are factors to be considered in determining whether particular means used in self defense is or is not excessive. Fraguglia v Sala (1936) 17 CA2d 738, 62 P2d 783.

glokic K: we have to write these stupid briefs and shit
NewGuySean: haha
NewGuySean: Is the Reasonable Force factor based only on Self Defense?
glokic K: ?
glokic K: you tell me
glokic K: too much legal jargon in all the cases and shit i read
NewGuySean: It depends on the focus of your paper... You can have a reasonable force requirement for other things as well: Defense of Property, Defense of Others, etc.
glokic K: yea i was talking about all that too
NewGuySean: you should narrow it down as much as possible if you can
NewGuySean: if you can focus only on self defense then it'll be easier
glokic K: what should i use for the blob that i pasted to you
NewGuySean: Are you limited only to California las?
NewGuySean: *law
glokic K: yup
NewGuySean: I'm not sure EXACTLY what the CA law says, but the basic idea is that the force used to protect yourself must be proportional to the force used against you... The make a distinction between deadly & non-deadly force. Therefore, you cannot use deadly force (i.e. a gun) to defend yourself against non-deadly force (i.e. someone's fist)
glokic K: lol buckholz!
NewGuySean: haha, exactly
glokic K: what you think is going to happen to him?
NewGuySean: dunno... I think he'll be ok. It was self-defense against a guy who is WAY bigger than hin and was known to be aggressive
glokic K: yup
glokic K: that's what i thought
NewGuySean: the knife is tricky, but he should have a decent case for self defense
glokic K: yea based on what i know he was scared shitless
NewGuySean: hey, I'll brb... class just got out
glokic K: aiight pz
NewGuySean: yeah
NewGuySean: L8
NewGuySean signed off at 11:21:02 AM.
NewGuySean signed on at 11:26:31 AM.
NewGuySean: sorry bro... had to relocate to the library
glokic K: it's all good
glokic K: so how's school going?
NewGuySean: good
NewGuySean: midterms started last week so it's getting busy
NewGuySean: what about you
NewGuySean: ?
glokic K: i can't wait to be done!
glokic K: fuck one more quarter and i'm out
NewGuySean: nice!
glokic K: it's flying by though
NewGuySean: that was fast
glokic K: yea 2 years
glokic K: you'll be done before you knwo it
NewGuySean: 2 1/2 more years...
glokic K: whew
glokic K: and another $100,000
NewGuySean: well, 2 1/4 I guess...
glokic K: lol
NewGuySean: hahah
glokic K: hey-- quick question.. how can i find cases on lexis nexis that relate to a specific code
NewGuySean: do you know how to use Shepard's?
glokic K: never heard of it
NewGuySean: hmm... pull up the code
NewGuySean: there should be a link at the top of the document that says "Shepardize"
NewGuySean: it'll pull up every case that cited that code
glokic K: on lexisnexis?
NewGuySean: yeah
glokic K: hrmm
NewGuySean: are you using the "Lexis Universe" thing through UCR?
glokic K: through library.ucr.edu
NewGuySean: hmm, I dunno if you have access to shepards... lemme check
NewGuySean: what're the proxy settings?
NewGuySean: port 8080 and proxy.ucr.edu?
glokic K: yea
glokic K: you can use my username/pw if you want hoskir01/991353 if yours don't work
NewGuySean: mine still works
glokic K: k
NewGuySean: what's the link to lexis?
glokic K: databases a-z
glokic K: http://web.lexis-nexis.com/universe/document?_m=c8acd49f22b5d151ed7af63ed07068e2&_docnum=5&wchp=dGLbVtz-zSkVA&_md5=9f86578dad75981b493498bf2bd7d978
glokic K: that's my code
NewGuySean: ahh... that's BS, they don't give you Shepards
NewGuySean: you can use my account if you want
glokic K: k
glokic K: i have to use proxy
NewGuySean: http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/
glokic K: ?
NewGuySean: User: cyric PW: 5lexis30
NewGuySean: oops
NewGuySean: no
NewGuySean: cyric118
NewGuySean: no proxy
NewGuySean: did it come up?
glokic K: it's logging in
glokic K: k cool
NewGuySean: pull up your code
glokic K: lol i can't find it
NewGuySean: what's the cite?
NewGuySean: what code?
glokic K: http://web.lexis-nexis.com/universe/document?_m=c8acd49f22b5d151ed7af63ed07068e2&_docnum=5&wchp=dGLbVtz-zSkVA&_md5=9f86578dad75981b493498bf2bd7d978 that is through ucr
glokic K: Cal Civ Code § 43
glokic K: that's the name of my code right
NewGuySean: yeah
NewGuySean: did the teacher give you that code or did you find it on your own?
glokic K: found on my own
glokic K: aw i found it
glokic K: http://web.lexis.com/lawschoolreg/xlinklogin04.asp?key=fe1b97aa16f8062ce9b47b7ada5305e7&pp=002&com=1&source=12527&view=cite_show_hits&ORIGINATION_CODE=00091&search=California%20Civil%20Code%20G eneral%20personal%20rights%20Cal%20Civ%20Code%20%a7%2043&relativedate=&searchtype=freestyle&autosubmit=yes&tocdisplay=off&topframe=on&powernav=on
NewGuySean: see the link in the middle top of the page for Shepardize?
glokic K: "sherpard's"
NewGuySean: should say Shepardize
glokic K: i see it
NewGuySean: right under "1 of 1"
NewGuySean: hit that
NewGuySean: it'll give you the whole history of the code
glokic K: crazy
glokic K: hey
glokic K: i'm in section 43.1
glokic K: but i'm in part seven
glokic K: so is it like 43.1.7?
NewGuySean: It should say "Cite to..." at the top of the page somewhere
NewGuySean: that'll tell you what to put
glokic K: your version of lexus nexis has so much more shit
NewGuySean: yeah
NewGuySean: Cal Pen Code § 693 = self defense
glokic K: what page would the cite: thing be on
glokic K: so it's not the civil code thing i had?
NewGuySean: there'll be overlap
NewGuySean: are you looking for self-defense in a criminal action or a civil action?
glokic K: doesn't matter to me i just want to get it done
NewGuySean: Cal Civ Code § 50
glokic K: awww!
glokic K: so can i choose like "protection of property"
NewGuySean: can you use case law or only statutes?
NewGuySean: yeah, you can use force to protect property... but the rules are different from self-defense
glokic K: we're supposed to show the code, then do 2 case briefs and some other analysis on it
glokic K: intro, code, 2 case briefs, social impact and personal opinion
NewGuySean: ok... that code is prolly the one you want
NewGuySean: I'll pull up two cases for self defense, hang on
glokic K: which one should i do? the excessive force? permissible force? in general?
NewGuySean: it's the same... if you go over Permissible Force then it becomes Excessive Force
NewGuySean: Permissible Force = Reasonable Force = Proportional Force
glokic K: i see... i have to copy and paste the code in my paper so should i copy the whole thing or just one of those parts?
NewGuySean: you need the code or just the Citation?
glokic K: he said "the code"
NewGuySean: this is the whole code:
NewGuySean: Cal Civ Code § 50 (2005)

§ 50. Right to use force

Any necessary force may be used to protect from wrongful injury the person or property of oneself, or of a wife, husband, child, parent, or other relative, or member of one's family, or of a ward, servant, master, or guest.

glokic K: aw the first part
glokic K: i'm getting it now
NewGuySean: the rest is just history and interpretation of the code
glokic K: i see i see
glokic K: ima have to buy you some booz the next time i see you
NewGuySean: haha
NewGuySean: no big... this takes me minutes now where it would take you a lot longer
glokic K: hell yea!
glokic K: i was looking all over for this shit
NewGuySean: here's a good case for self defense
NewGuySean: Ballew v. Davis, 76 Cal. App. 2d 418
glokic K: i did a brief on this.. will it work? JOE I. DUTRO, Respondent, v. JIM CASTORO et al., Appellants
NewGuySean: do you have the citation/
NewGuySean: ?
glokic K: is this the citation?16 Cal. App. 2d 116; 60 P.2d 182; 1936 Cal. App. LEXIS 245
NewGuySean: yep... just use the first one
NewGuySean: 16 Cal. App. 2d 116
NewGuySean: you don't need the rest
glokic K: k
NewGuySean: yeah, that case should work
glokic K: awesome
NewGuySean: the part: "The jury was instructed in substance that one cannot use a quarrel as an excuse [***2] for assaulting another and then plead self-defense; and if the party unlawfully attacked uses more force than necessary to protect himself he in turn commits a battery upon his assailant for which he will be liable. We are satisfied that these instructions substantially state the law and furnish no ground for reversal."
NewGuySean: is what you want to use... Headnote: CA(1)
glokic K: use as the rule?
NewGuySean: yeah
glokic K: yup
glokic K: that's what i had
glokic K: good shit i feel much more knowledgable about what i'm doing
glokic K: all the shit in lexis nexis was confusing me
NewGuySean: Here's your rule: "If he in turn commits a battery upon his assailant for which he will be liable."
NewGuySean: oops
NewGuySean: that didn't copy right
NewGuySean: "if the party unlawfully attacked uses more force than necessary to protect himself he in turn commits a battery upon his assailant for which he will be liable"
NewGuySean: that's your rule ;-)
glokic K: ;-)
glokic K: what's the rule for hte other case you told me to do
NewGuySean: hmm... lemme see, I just skimmed it
glokic K: k
NewGuySean: hmm... this is more of a defense of others case now that I look at it
NewGuySean: gimme a sec...
glokic K: k
NewGuySean: Fraguglia v. Sala, 17 Cal. App. 2d 738
NewGuySean: Rule: "In determining whether the particular means used is or is not excessive, the amount of force exerted, the means or instrument by [**787] which it is applied, the manner or method of applying it, and the circumstances under which it is applied are factors to be considered"
glokic K: dope
glokic K: thanks
NewGuySean: Basically, when trying to figure out if the force was excessive you need to factor in the weapon, manner used & circumstances
NewGuySean: sure
NewGuySean: lemme know if you need any more help
glokic K: k i will.. thanks so much for your help bro
glokic K: when you comin out to rivy next?
NewGuySean: you got it... just do me a favore and don't pass out my login info for lexis... I don't wanna get in trouble for giving it out
glokic K: and are you thinking of going to matt elais' party on sat?
glokic K: yea i won't give it out
NewGuySean: cool... I'm trying, but I have a midterm Monday so I don't know if I can make it yet
NewGuySean: As for Rivvy, I have no idea... School's picking up, but I'm done in May so we'll see
glokic K: ISLANDER!
glokic K: lol
NewGuySean: hell yeah
glokic K: ok i'll let you get back to work
NewGuySean: cool
NewGuySean: good luck
glokic K: thanks again
glokic K: pz!
NewGuySean: no prob
NewGuySean: L8